Well said. Honestly, if people don’t want to be Christian that’s fine, we can coexist. It’s this recent blaming of Christianity for progressivism/wokeism that boggles my mind.
Look, I appreciate the young guy (and girl) energy. The new ideas. The flinging stuff against the wall to see what sticks. But its a bit rich to be all about coalition-building and then say “But a good chunk of you, you’re all superstitious religious fundamentalists who need to be suppressed so we can ascend into the glorious figure.” That sounds like the USSR and isn’t a very coalition-building impulse.
Anyway, it doesn’t have to be this way. But it is.
> It’s this recent blaming of Christianity for progressivism/wokeism that boggles my mind.
I think people over rationalize. You can cherry pick verses to support such ideas, especially if you don't sincerely believe. Faith is a gift of The Holy Spirit. It's ultimately not rational. To believe in God, you must accept that some mysteries will be beyond human rationality.
First of all I want to say thank you for the article. I agree with many of your points. As someone who was very spiritual until my mid to late teens, and who dipped his toe in the water again in my early 30’s, I find myself reconsidering it again for many of the reason that you pointed out in your article.
I did want to touch on the Christianity to blame for woke point the other commenter made. I’ve not heard of this but funnily it came up in discussion with a friend. She had asked me if it was racist to be wary of Muslims migrating to her country. This evolved into a discussion of shared values vs disliking race and the difference between the two. We are from different countries but both Europeans and therefore have a shared value system. This is a system based on Christianity. Long story short we ended up agreeing that, although Christianity isn’t directly to blame for woke. Woke culture couldn’t have sprung from any other cultural background. It requires the base concepts of compassion, empathy and such, which are often missing in other cultures. We agreed that this is what makes out cultures better than others, gives us democracy, justice and freedom. We defined this as culturally Christian - rather than someone who is a practising Christian. People who practice a belief system without really understanding that beliefs system or that they are actually practising one, if that makes sense. Our conclusion at the end was that people need to understand more about where their culture comes from and with the demise of Christianity in only a few generations, many don’t understand their own culture to the level their church going grandparents did. Essentially woke is a watered down secular version of Christianity in its desire for justice and compassion but lacks the self reflection and sense of accountability and responsibility that is the essential to balance those things out. That’s what you get from being a practising Christian.
I’m not too sure if that’s what the original commentator was referencing or a different phenomenon but upon reading his comment I wanted to share the thoughts of my friend and I. Thanks for listening.
I absolutely agree with your point. Woke, takes great impulses of charity and love enshrined by Christianity to their extreme but separates them from a spiritual grounding which leaves everything open to abuse and curruption.
The thing is that *everything of the West* is of Christianity, including liberalism and progressivism. The Enlightenment has in essence been nothing but the triumph of Christian gnosticism (luciferian alchemaic hermeticism, qabalism) wearing the cultural patrimony of orthodox Christianity like a skinsuit.. Now increasingly more like a pantsuit..
That’s why Enlightenment secularism is so pernicious, it wears in its various permutations all the divers accidents of the Christian orthodoxy that it is substantially replacing. “The devil presents himself as an angel of light,” and his faustian enlightenment creed is the perfect inversion, the perfect ape negating the truth..
Chesterton noted this, how all the modern Western ideological movements are really nothing more than Christian heresies that each distort certain Christian virtues, while negating their ontological underpinning, which is the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ. In denying the Resurrection, secularists deny Christian anthropology, they deny the inherent dignity of Man. They deny Man his freedom, they deny him any possible ultimate meaning to his actions, they deny any possible meaning in any thing at all.. In denying him the possibility of divinization (which is the same as transcendence, the possibility of being eternally like unto God) they deny him his very personhood, all of which is inseparable from Man’s transcendence of death.
Christianity is humility before the truth. “We now see but through the glass darkly..” It is in essence *agnosis* in that for we Christians salvation is not through knowledge, which is to say power, but through trust, faith.. Our hope is in our love of God, in his friendship and salvation. This love is the mark of legitimate Christian politics and civilization.
Gnosticism is the satanic inversion of this culture of love, in which “salvation” is sought through knowledge, science, power.. It’s society of self deification, in other words. The perfection of idolatry in the idolization of the self: “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law..” (cf. Rabelais, Nietzche, Crowley, etc. etc.) And this dogmatic dissolution of all metaphysical limitations, my friends, is the essential articulation of the liberal creed.. A creed that inevitably results in societal terms in the will to power culminating in fascism.
It is a problem that they've inherited not just from Nietzsche (from whom they get their denial of objective morality), but from libertarians. Like libertarians, they simply don't want to be told how to behave *by anyone* -- Christian, left, right, woke, gay, or otherwise.
But the fundamental question to ask any libertarian is: "Freedom to do *what* exactly?"
What can't you do that you want to do so badly with the current government and its laws? Or, more pointedly: "What can't you do under a future, Christian government that you want to do so badly?"
The answers are often degenerate, shocking, and quite telling.
EMJ once said in his show that he checked out of the right and sees it as an excuse for people to behave immorally. Seeing what passes for "dissident right" on Xitter and here in Substack, I completely understand his point.
Walt is an entertaining guy and brings many interesting ideas. I'll give him that. But, I have to say, that I would rather not have him as any legitimate though leader at large.
For one, I'm for some permissivenes on some of the subjects. There can be good reasons for abortion(not many, but there are)...but I can't shake of that there is a good load of nefariousness behind his reasonings.
How do we supposed to spot societal decay if we remain permissive on degeneracy? And I won't accept the reasoning that there will be always degenerates and they need their degeneracy.
Also, the parasitic mentality. I want to live in a healthy society, in which I can further myself, my family, my legacy etc. I need others to maintain this, because I want to live with the benefits of such system, but I will enable the subvertion of it for my own pleasure.
but as a Christian, I understand that we are not of this world and that all will be for naught
- this quote bothers me, because I'm worried its true but it makes my head explode to think it is wrong to try and " build the kingdom" on earth... and I hope that the parable of the Good Samaritan explicity " go and do likewise" encourages me to go out into the world....maybe it is when i cross that line into believing that intellectual systems ( explicity contrary to the word?) will suffice that it goes bad. anyway great article
This fearful contradiction is the core of Camu's Absurdist views best put forth in The Myth of Sisyphus, but this philosophical conundrum is engaged with by Schopenhauer and best of all in my opinion by Fydor Dostoevsky in the greatest novel of all time, The Brothers Karamazov.
my memory was that Dostoievski reconciled that the spirit of Christ was the greatest spirit to enter the world and if we are aligned with that - in our own little spheres - some bigger than others - that spirit is a healing force for the world
Walt says the prolife movement caused the rise in the amount of people that support abortion up to the point of birth. Really? Do we really have to talk about correlation and causation? It was not the massive propaganda, the political pressure, lobbying by interest groups, none of that. Not that there are no issues with the prolife movement, and some exaggerations, but don’t we wish to live in a society where such a movement is not even necessary? If defeating the left means accepting the deliberate murder of babies on the womb, I’m sorry but that’s not a price I personally am willing to pay. As soon as we abandon our moral grounds, in what sense are we better than our enemies, exactly? The guy wants me to overlook thousands if not millions of dead babies in favour of a new order, he sounds just like leftists when they say all the murders would have been justified if communist utopia was achieved.
Just some thoughts that might be appealing to you, since I've seen some notes of yours, and now this post, where is seems like you're looking for a place for both your religion and your Polis.
Honestly, Eastern Orthodoxy already does this in the East, only on the State level, which I would argue is too large. I obviously am American born, and don't know if it does it on the city or community level, which is what we need here in the West to build Polities.
I think you’re onto something when it comes to purpose. I find my purpose in my work. It’s my calling and vocation. It’s my faith. But with that calling, I have found belonging as well.
It pisses me off to have all of Christendom reduced to a basket of issues which can fit on a ballot or be debated in an hour podcast. Christendom is civilization (low-time-preference). If you want it you must build it. Otherwise enjoy the slide into primality (high-time-preference).
I'm not calling out Walt, Dave, or anyone else. I'm calling out the big picture. Christendom works because it is true. God is TRUTH.
EDIT: Buck and Jason have their notions time preference reversed. High time preference means you want everything right now. Low time preference means delaying gratification for the sake of future goals. It's not complicated.
There’s a strange contradiction in this essay. A declaration of disinterest in the defining political contest of the time. A fatalism about human destiny. But a commitment to protecting your family, community and history. I’m going to suggest that while you can certainly recruit people with despair. You can’t build a good society without optimism and hope. And politics is how you turn those aspirations into facts. The alternative is just another plaintive cry about the iniquitous world and call to the monastery.
Well said. Honestly, if people don’t want to be Christian that’s fine, we can coexist. It’s this recent blaming of Christianity for progressivism/wokeism that boggles my mind.
Look, I appreciate the young guy (and girl) energy. The new ideas. The flinging stuff against the wall to see what sticks. But its a bit rich to be all about coalition-building and then say “But a good chunk of you, you’re all superstitious religious fundamentalists who need to be suppressed so we can ascend into the glorious figure.” That sounds like the USSR and isn’t a very coalition-building impulse.
Anyway, it doesn’t have to be this way. But it is.
> It’s this recent blaming of Christianity for progressivism/wokeism that boggles my mind.
I think people over rationalize. You can cherry pick verses to support such ideas, especially if you don't sincerely believe. Faith is a gift of The Holy Spirit. It's ultimately not rational. To believe in God, you must accept that some mysteries will be beyond human rationality.
First of all I want to say thank you for the article. I agree with many of your points. As someone who was very spiritual until my mid to late teens, and who dipped his toe in the water again in my early 30’s, I find myself reconsidering it again for many of the reason that you pointed out in your article.
I did want to touch on the Christianity to blame for woke point the other commenter made. I’ve not heard of this but funnily it came up in discussion with a friend. She had asked me if it was racist to be wary of Muslims migrating to her country. This evolved into a discussion of shared values vs disliking race and the difference between the two. We are from different countries but both Europeans and therefore have a shared value system. This is a system based on Christianity. Long story short we ended up agreeing that, although Christianity isn’t directly to blame for woke. Woke culture couldn’t have sprung from any other cultural background. It requires the base concepts of compassion, empathy and such, which are often missing in other cultures. We agreed that this is what makes out cultures better than others, gives us democracy, justice and freedom. We defined this as culturally Christian - rather than someone who is a practising Christian. People who practice a belief system without really understanding that beliefs system or that they are actually practising one, if that makes sense. Our conclusion at the end was that people need to understand more about where their culture comes from and with the demise of Christianity in only a few generations, many don’t understand their own culture to the level their church going grandparents did. Essentially woke is a watered down secular version of Christianity in its desire for justice and compassion but lacks the self reflection and sense of accountability and responsibility that is the essential to balance those things out. That’s what you get from being a practising Christian.
I’m not too sure if that’s what the original commentator was referencing or a different phenomenon but upon reading his comment I wanted to share the thoughts of my friend and I. Thanks for listening.
I absolutely agree with your point. Woke, takes great impulses of charity and love enshrined by Christianity to their extreme but separates them from a spiritual grounding which leaves everything open to abuse and curruption.
Well put.
The thing is that *everything of the West* is of Christianity, including liberalism and progressivism. The Enlightenment has in essence been nothing but the triumph of Christian gnosticism (luciferian alchemaic hermeticism, qabalism) wearing the cultural patrimony of orthodox Christianity like a skinsuit.. Now increasingly more like a pantsuit..
That’s why Enlightenment secularism is so pernicious, it wears in its various permutations all the divers accidents of the Christian orthodoxy that it is substantially replacing. “The devil presents himself as an angel of light,” and his faustian enlightenment creed is the perfect inversion, the perfect ape negating the truth..
Chesterton noted this, how all the modern Western ideological movements are really nothing more than Christian heresies that each distort certain Christian virtues, while negating their ontological underpinning, which is the Incarnation and Resurrection of Christ. In denying the Resurrection, secularists deny Christian anthropology, they deny the inherent dignity of Man. They deny Man his freedom, they deny him any possible ultimate meaning to his actions, they deny any possible meaning in any thing at all.. In denying him the possibility of divinization (which is the same as transcendence, the possibility of being eternally like unto God) they deny him his very personhood, all of which is inseparable from Man’s transcendence of death.
Christianity is humility before the truth. “We now see but through the glass darkly..” It is in essence *agnosis* in that for we Christians salvation is not through knowledge, which is to say power, but through trust, faith.. Our hope is in our love of God, in his friendship and salvation. This love is the mark of legitimate Christian politics and civilization.
Gnosticism is the satanic inversion of this culture of love, in which “salvation” is sought through knowledge, science, power.. It’s society of self deification, in other words. The perfection of idolatry in the idolization of the self: “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law..” (cf. Rabelais, Nietzche, Crowley, etc. etc.) And this dogmatic dissolution of all metaphysical limitations, my friends, is the essential articulation of the liberal creed.. A creed that inevitably results in societal terms in the will to power culminating in fascism.
Those who hate their coalition allies will lose them. And they will deserve it.
It is a problem that they've inherited not just from Nietzsche (from whom they get their denial of objective morality), but from libertarians. Like libertarians, they simply don't want to be told how to behave *by anyone* -- Christian, left, right, woke, gay, or otherwise.
But the fundamental question to ask any libertarian is: "Freedom to do *what* exactly?"
What can't you do that you want to do so badly with the current government and its laws? Or, more pointedly: "What can't you do under a future, Christian government that you want to do so badly?"
The answers are often degenerate, shocking, and quite telling.
Fine, I'll do it myself.
HERE I AMMMMM STUCK IN THE MIDDLE WITH YOUUU
(good rant)
😂
EMJ once said in his show that he checked out of the right and sees it as an excuse for people to behave immorally. Seeing what passes for "dissident right" on Xitter and here in Substack, I completely understand his point.
Walt is an entertaining guy and brings many interesting ideas. I'll give him that. But, I have to say, that I would rather not have him as any legitimate though leader at large.
For one, I'm for some permissivenes on some of the subjects. There can be good reasons for abortion(not many, but there are)...but I can't shake of that there is a good load of nefariousness behind his reasonings.
How do we supposed to spot societal decay if we remain permissive on degeneracy? And I won't accept the reasoning that there will be always degenerates and they need their degeneracy.
Also, the parasitic mentality. I want to live in a healthy society, in which I can further myself, my family, my legacy etc. I need others to maintain this, because I want to live with the benefits of such system, but I will enable the subvertion of it for my own pleasure.
Like who thinks, this could work?
but as a Christian, I understand that we are not of this world and that all will be for naught
- this quote bothers me, because I'm worried its true but it makes my head explode to think it is wrong to try and " build the kingdom" on earth... and I hope that the parable of the Good Samaritan explicity " go and do likewise" encourages me to go out into the world....maybe it is when i cross that line into believing that intellectual systems ( explicity contrary to the word?) will suffice that it goes bad. anyway great article
This fearful contradiction is the core of Camu's Absurdist views best put forth in The Myth of Sisyphus, but this philosophical conundrum is engaged with by Schopenhauer and best of all in my opinion by Fydor Dostoevsky in the greatest novel of all time, The Brothers Karamazov.
my memory was that Dostoievski reconciled that the spirit of Christ was the greatest spirit to enter the world and if we are aligned with that - in our own little spheres - some bigger than others - that spirit is a healing force for the world
Walt says the prolife movement caused the rise in the amount of people that support abortion up to the point of birth. Really? Do we really have to talk about correlation and causation? It was not the massive propaganda, the political pressure, lobbying by interest groups, none of that. Not that there are no issues with the prolife movement, and some exaggerations, but don’t we wish to live in a society where such a movement is not even necessary? If defeating the left means accepting the deliberate murder of babies on the womb, I’m sorry but that’s not a price I personally am willing to pay. As soon as we abandon our moral grounds, in what sense are we better than our enemies, exactly? The guy wants me to overlook thousands if not millions of dead babies in favour of a new order, he sounds just like leftists when they say all the murders would have been justified if communist utopia was achieved.
Just some thoughts that might be appealing to you, since I've seen some notes of yours, and now this post, where is seems like you're looking for a place for both your religion and your Polis.
https://uncouthbarbarian.substack.com/p/founding-a-polis-on-religion-is-creating
Honestly, Eastern Orthodoxy already does this in the East, only on the State level, which I would argue is too large. I obviously am American born, and don't know if it does it on the city or community level, which is what we need here in the West to build Polities.
The good, the true and the beautiful.
Indeed.
Absolutely fire dude! Bravo!
I think you’re onto something when it comes to purpose. I find my purpose in my work. It’s my calling and vocation. It’s my faith. But with that calling, I have found belonging as well.
Yup. The good, the truth, & the beautiful. The 3 Graces of any age.
Abundant clowns to the left of me, Bankster jokers to the right ...
You sure ain't stuck in the middle!
It pisses me off to have all of Christendom reduced to a basket of issues which can fit on a ballot or be debated in an hour podcast. Christendom is civilization (low-time-preference). If you want it you must build it. Otherwise enjoy the slide into primality (high-time-preference).
https://youtu.be/v52Qv0SwjBc
I'm not calling out Walt, Dave, or anyone else. I'm calling out the big picture. Christendom works because it is true. God is TRUTH.
EDIT: Buck and Jason have their notions time preference reversed. High time preference means you want everything right now. Low time preference means delaying gratification for the sake of future goals. It's not complicated.
There’s a strange contradiction in this essay. A declaration of disinterest in the defining political contest of the time. A fatalism about human destiny. But a commitment to protecting your family, community and history. I’m going to suggest that while you can certainly recruit people with despair. You can’t build a good society without optimism and hope. And politics is how you turn those aspirations into facts. The alternative is just another plaintive cry about the iniquitous world and call to the monastery.
Those who will not accept the truth cannot help solve anything intentionally. The best they can hope for is to get right by accident.
The truth is not a proposition, a fact, or an idea. The truth is a person, and that person is Jesus Christ.