Great first podcast and I’m looking forward to more! My community has shrunk as I’ve gotten older but fortunately I still have some good friends online and in real life to keep me company. Love bookish conversations though and I don’t have that with everyone. That was part of my motivation for starting a Substack
That reminds me: I used to frequent AOL Chat Rooms quite a lot, and got to know a lot of people that way. We had some software you could use to run quizzes. It was competitive at times but there was plenty of banter and laughs. I found it way easier to get to know people 'there' than in real life. While most of the quizzers were in the UK there were some in continental Europe and if we stayed up into the small hours the Americans joined in too. I met a few in the real world but mostly the bonds dissolved as AOL itself died out.
When I was back in the States last, I was really shocked at how utilitarian even fast food restaurants had become. There is no decoration. The colors are muted. (Google "Air B&B style" to see what I mean). It is as if physical space now asipires to aspects of the virtual. As if you could change the palette of any room if you could only find the right button on your phone.
My wife worked a photoshoot late tonight and when she got home neither of us wanted to cook dinner, so I drove to the nearest Wendy's. I went inside because I despise drive throughs. Now you order on a screen, pay on that same screen, and somebody from behind the counter gives you your order. Nobody said a word to me. BUGWORLD
Great podcast! Reclaiming the idea of the third place is going to be a long, uphill battle. There are many factors opposing it, but it could be a fruitful endeavor, if it works.
This is something more people should be talking about and trying to figure out. Even a loner like me sees the problem!
I am definitely a statistic. I rarely see anyone outside my house. When lockdowns happened virtually nothing changed about my habits haha. Even someone I consider my "best friend" I never see. They work all the time, and all of a sudden months go by and I haven't even spoken to them on the phone. Plus, I lost a lot of friends when I had kids.
But like you said, at one time it wasn't like that. I'd regularly go play cards at 24 hour coffee shops with my nightowl friends, when we were still underage. If only I knew one of those 3am card games would be the last.
It’s why looking back, the lockdowns were so terrible. We had already eroded social life by a lot, and now we eroded it even more, and without a care in the world. Even I, a loner, wasn’t too happy about lockdowns.
Yeah, just because I never leave the house doesn't mean I don't want the choice! Haha
My kids suffered, and that’s what really pissed me off. There's still fewer birthday parties it feels like. It totally screwed up a whole generation of kids, a Gen Z/Alpha 9/11
I guess that because I’ve always been a loner, I never thought much about this. But now that you mention it, another great “third place” was the mall. The indoor shopping malls of old are long gone now, but they used to be where young folks hung out (the “teenager at the mall” was a cliche for a reason.)
Perhaps the loss of these third places is behind the increase in mental disorders among the young today -- when your only social interaction is the modern internet (the pre-smartphone internet was VERY different), I could see a person going to some dark places.
I never went to the mall much, but I do remember my dad taking me there to participate in Pokémon League when I was 12. That place is now an empty lot.
As I commented in this thread, I was a mall-rat for a few years also. In the UK these days a lot of these larger malls are sold as destinations, they are alongside a motorway somewhere, you can't get there on foot, you park, you maybe visit the 'food hall' (same slop, different cartons) and you buy stuff. There might be a cinema or a bowling alley, these are far too expensive as anything other than an occasional treat. The whole place is definitely not intended for hanging around sociably or just being in the moment. Kids with nothing better to do soon get hustled away.
That’s another factor -- folks don’t want young people congregating like that. It’s like modern culture is trying to destroy the third place on purpose.
First of all; you used to go to a bar called Lestat's? 🤣
I'm of the opinion that there is a real opportunity out there to create third spaces (clubhouses possibly). I think this is particularly needed when you're talking about men's spaces. Even better if getting wasted is in no way tied in.
Thank you. I'm trying to teach myself the process in between learning photography, raising a kid, being an awesome post-post-modern forest rebel, and my regular writing.
My youth has pretty much the opposite of what you describe in this episode. I grew up sheltered and absorbed in games, movies, and the like. I never had deep friendships, the ones I had were all online. Once I outgrew gaming and moved on most of those have effectively over. As I have gotten older the desire to have more third places. I think others do too, and I hope once the demand for these types of places becomes apparent they will start to materialize.
This certainly hit home. So many 'places' nowadays are actually non-places, as if someone designed an airport terminal one day and then photocopied the drawings at various percentages.
We mainly wandered around, chatted to people, I smoked secretly and it was great for that. There was a place that sold glass ornaments and every day for maybe half-an-hour a man would take up his place on a platform nearby and demonstrate glass blowing. Never made the same thing twice, usually small animal replicas.
There was an ice skating rink in the middle and that was fun to watch.
Later, at university, a steady group of regulars met up outside the coffee shop, and you met friends of friends, drank and smoked, crosswords, and then we discovered Uno...
Once in a while I meet up with a good friend from this circle who lives in Netherlands (I'm in UK) and a fair few are in touch via facebook.
But I haven't been a part of such a circle of acquaintances for near enough 35 years. I'm retired now and soon moving house and it's my hope to join whatever groups I can find that are even halfway interesting: play chess, discuss a book we read, anything. There's a Walk And Talk group started up in that area recently. That's what they do: meet up somewhere, walk together, stop for a few minutes, chat as they go along, and they do a daily 'check in' using fb messenger.
Anyhow, I really enjoyed the podcast - just the right length - and look forward to becoming part of this community also.
Hello Alexandru, that was a great first podcast. Super relevant and inspiring for the rest of us longing for the days or yore, or for other lands where coffee shops actually remain places to meet others. I'm interested in perhaps chatting with you on your podcast about the café culture in Eastern and Central Europe, where I lived from 2016 to 2023. I'd love to pick apart the chasm that exists between the US and countries like Romania or Hungary. Let me know if you're interested. Stoked for future episodes, regardless!
Many truck stops, the ‘third place’, or, only place for my particular tribe, are also losing their spirit, and many are becoming oversize fast food joints.
I remember so many third places in my youth, as you describe them, and many are gone.
Not sure if replacing them with hipster brew pubs is the answer ... but a great starting point for conversation, if in this digital realm.
Technical criticism - you need to adjust your mic input levels, it’s crustjng you out.
Great first podcast and I’m looking forward to more! My community has shrunk as I’ve gotten older but fortunately I still have some good friends online and in real life to keep me company. Love bookish conversations though and I don’t have that with everyone. That was part of my motivation for starting a Substack
Absolutely, and once I iron out the interview and discussion you are welcome to join me for an episode. You are doing great stuff here on the stack.
Thanks so much! Any time
That reminds me: I used to frequent AOL Chat Rooms quite a lot, and got to know a lot of people that way. We had some software you could use to run quizzes. It was competitive at times but there was plenty of banter and laughs. I found it way easier to get to know people 'there' than in real life. While most of the quizzers were in the UK there were some in continental Europe and if we stayed up into the small hours the Americans joined in too. I met a few in the real world but mostly the bonds dissolved as AOL itself died out.
When I was back in the States last, I was really shocked at how utilitarian even fast food restaurants had become. There is no decoration. The colors are muted. (Google "Air B&B style" to see what I mean). It is as if physical space now asipires to aspects of the virtual. As if you could change the palette of any room if you could only find the right button on your phone.
My wife worked a photoshoot late tonight and when she got home neither of us wanted to cook dinner, so I drove to the nearest Wendy's. I went inside because I despise drive throughs. Now you order on a screen, pay on that same screen, and somebody from behind the counter gives you your order. Nobody said a word to me. BUGWORLD
Great podcast! Reclaiming the idea of the third place is going to be a long, uphill battle. There are many factors opposing it, but it could be a fruitful endeavor, if it works.
This is something more people should be talking about and trying to figure out. Even a loner like me sees the problem!
I am definitely a statistic. I rarely see anyone outside my house. When lockdowns happened virtually nothing changed about my habits haha. Even someone I consider my "best friend" I never see. They work all the time, and all of a sudden months go by and I haven't even spoken to them on the phone. Plus, I lost a lot of friends when I had kids.
But like you said, at one time it wasn't like that. I'd regularly go play cards at 24 hour coffee shops with my nightowl friends, when we were still underage. If only I knew one of those 3am card games would be the last.
It’s why looking back, the lockdowns were so terrible. We had already eroded social life by a lot, and now we eroded it even more, and without a care in the world. Even I, a loner, wasn’t too happy about lockdowns.
Yeah, just because I never leave the house doesn't mean I don't want the choice! Haha
My kids suffered, and that’s what really pissed me off. There's still fewer birthday parties it feels like. It totally screwed up a whole generation of kids, a Gen Z/Alpha 9/11
That’s the saddest part of this -- the effect on the kids. Lost learning, lost socialization...no wonder they feel so hopeless.
The whole thing was a goddamn crime against the young. Never forget those criminals.
You’re right.
I guess that because I’ve always been a loner, I never thought much about this. But now that you mention it, another great “third place” was the mall. The indoor shopping malls of old are long gone now, but they used to be where young folks hung out (the “teenager at the mall” was a cliche for a reason.)
Perhaps the loss of these third places is behind the increase in mental disorders among the young today -- when your only social interaction is the modern internet (the pre-smartphone internet was VERY different), I could see a person going to some dark places.
Yep, we used to go to the mall in middle school just to walk around and people watch. Also to shoplift books from B Daltons, but that's another story.
I never went to the mall much, but I do remember my dad taking me there to participate in Pokémon League when I was 12. That place is now an empty lot.
As I commented in this thread, I was a mall-rat for a few years also. In the UK these days a lot of these larger malls are sold as destinations, they are alongside a motorway somewhere, you can't get there on foot, you park, you maybe visit the 'food hall' (same slop, different cartons) and you buy stuff. There might be a cinema or a bowling alley, these are far too expensive as anything other than an occasional treat. The whole place is definitely not intended for hanging around sociably or just being in the moment. Kids with nothing better to do soon get hustled away.
That’s another factor -- folks don’t want young people congregating like that. It’s like modern culture is trying to destroy the third place on purpose.
Yup: go to work, stay at home, or spend money and THEN go home or to work. Those are your menu options.
And those options all taste bad.
First of all; you used to go to a bar called Lestat's? 🤣
I'm of the opinion that there is a real opportunity out there to create third spaces (clubhouses possibly). I think this is particularly needed when you're talking about men's spaces. Even better if getting wasted is in no way tied in.
https://g.co/kgs/54XnMns
It was a 24 hour coffee shop in San Diego. I think it's still open.
Kapow! Right in the sweet spot!
Loving the musical intro and topic. You're off to a great start.
Thank you. I'm trying to teach myself the process in between learning photography, raising a kid, being an awesome post-post-modern forest rebel, and my regular writing.
My youth has pretty much the opposite of what you describe in this episode. I grew up sheltered and absorbed in games, movies, and the like. I never had deep friendships, the ones I had were all online. Once I outgrew gaming and moved on most of those have effectively over. As I have gotten older the desire to have more third places. I think others do too, and I hope once the demand for these types of places becomes apparent they will start to materialize.
This certainly hit home. So many 'places' nowadays are actually non-places, as if someone designed an airport terminal one day and then photocopied the drawings at various percentages.
When I was maybe ten or so the older of my two sisters and I would walk to a mall most days. It was large and completely subterranean https://www.gandhisquareprecinct.com/carlton-centre
We mainly wandered around, chatted to people, I smoked secretly and it was great for that. There was a place that sold glass ornaments and every day for maybe half-an-hour a man would take up his place on a platform nearby and demonstrate glass blowing. Never made the same thing twice, usually small animal replicas.
There was an ice skating rink in the middle and that was fun to watch.
Later, at university, a steady group of regulars met up outside the coffee shop, and you met friends of friends, drank and smoked, crosswords, and then we discovered Uno...
Once in a while I meet up with a good friend from this circle who lives in Netherlands (I'm in UK) and a fair few are in touch via facebook.
But I haven't been a part of such a circle of acquaintances for near enough 35 years. I'm retired now and soon moving house and it's my hope to join whatever groups I can find that are even halfway interesting: play chess, discuss a book we read, anything. There's a Walk And Talk group started up in that area recently. That's what they do: meet up somewhere, walk together, stop for a few minutes, chat as they go along, and they do a daily 'check in' using fb messenger.
Anyhow, I really enjoyed the podcast - just the right length - and look forward to becoming part of this community also.
Hello Alexandru, that was a great first podcast. Super relevant and inspiring for the rest of us longing for the days or yore, or for other lands where coffee shops actually remain places to meet others. I'm interested in perhaps chatting with you on your podcast about the café culture in Eastern and Central Europe, where I lived from 2016 to 2023. I'd love to pick apart the chasm that exists between the US and countries like Romania or Hungary. Let me know if you're interested. Stoked for future episodes, regardless!
I'm absolutely interested because for being Romanian I'm not really Romanian because I spent the majority of my life in California.
I'm happy to hear that you're interested...If we put our heads together, I think we'd have a solid episode, for sure. Would you like my email address?
Yes please
katherine.ruth.hofer@gmail.com
Ok, expect an email in the very near future. I'm still ironing out the technical aspects but I'm excited to have a chat.
Many truck stops, the ‘third place’, or, only place for my particular tribe, are also losing their spirit, and many are becoming oversize fast food joints.
I remember so many third places in my youth, as you describe them, and many are gone.
Not sure if replacing them with hipster brew pubs is the answer ... but a great starting point for conversation, if in this digital realm.
Technical criticism - you need to adjust your mic input levels, it’s crustjng you out.
I need to improve my recording skills. I think I over compressed because I had too many clicks and pops. I need to practice with this mic.
I like!