Cannibalism of the past after such momentous decades is a possibility. It explains much of the recycling. The culture produced in the 90s, of course, was also distinct in many ways, as is that of every decade. But there is an inescapable feeling that after 1997 or so, any changes are very tiny and more tweaks to a template that has remained in plane for almost thirty years—an entire other generation.
Jan 23Liked by Alexandru Constantin, Alexander Hellene
I really enjoyed this episode. Great theme music too. I have had similar thoughts but y’all articulated them much better than I could.
Funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about 90s music just this morning. It’s funny to see now not only the crazy juxtapositions of pop music genres on the radio but also the rather blatant similarities between artists. The differences between Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan and Fiona Apple seem so slight though they are all very different individuals.
I have some things to say here about the literary stuff.
The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can.
I think saying that folks are “hiding behind sci-fi/fantasy” is unfair. One must remember that fantastical fiction has *itself* fallen under the cultural rot. Great truths can be conveyed through bold, imaginative storytelling that is fun to read, but Oldpub in particular is not interested in those things, as they may be unsafe.
I have a theory that unifies both the Oldpub tendency toward blandness and the indie tendency toward pastiche: **Strong emotions risk cancellation.** Any writing that arouses strong emotional responses may set off people who cannot regulate their emotions well, resulting in cancel mobs; there’s a reason that the Tumblr crowd tends to be uniquely vicious when dragging someone online (This is the reason for “trigger warnings”, as well as the childish style of modern American cartoons.) Notice that I said nothing about politics, woke or otherwise; this is because even media that espouses basic progressive tenets gets attacked if its imagery is too vivid.
Thus to avoid the cancel mobs, both Oldpub and indie cope in similar ways. Oldpub tries to stick to the approved ideological points influenced by their largely white female liberal workforce, while indie sticks to stuff similar to what they read, watched on TV, or played video games of in their youth, since those things are well-understood and thus safe. By contrast, something new and affecting risks angering the emotionally immature due to fear of the unknown. And so we get blandness and pastiche.
But strong emotions are where the good writing is. **Therefore, if you write anything good or anything that matters, you risk cancellation.** The specific politics are beside the point; you’re going to get whiny reactions no matter your philosophy. If we are to push forward, we need to stop letting immature people hold our creativity hostage.
Interesting talk. I think it’s true that the 60s was a truly radical decade in the sense that it featured the revolt against tradition as a rite of passage instead of upholding tradition as most rites of passage do. Then the 70s brought punk rock and hip hop, the latter being a truly groundbreaking art form. But growing up in the 90s I was aware of how derivative so much of the culture was. Lollapalooza, grunge etc. But maybe cannibalism of the past is more like the natural order of things and it just seems weird to us because we’re living in the aftershocks of the 60s and 70s/80s. Not to give too much credit to boomers here or anything, and it is true that our internet age contains a lot of recycled banality.
It's a shame that "Pulp Rock" hasn't sold well. It's a fantastic concept! I regret that I missed out on the Kickstarter, but this interview convinced me to order a copy. I look forward to reading it!
Cannibalism of the past after such momentous decades is a possibility. It explains much of the recycling. The culture produced in the 90s, of course, was also distinct in many ways, as is that of every decade. But there is an inescapable feeling that after 1997 or so, any changes are very tiny and more tweaks to a template that has remained in plane for almost thirty years—an entire other generation.
Technology makes it so easy to access trappings of past scenes and trends that it’s easier to copy-paste old things than create the new.
"recreations of recreations"
What a succinct way to explain the state of most modern culture!
I really enjoyed this episode. Great theme music too. I have had similar thoughts but y’all articulated them much better than I could.
Funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about 90s music just this morning. It’s funny to see now not only the crazy juxtapositions of pop music genres on the radio but also the rather blatant similarities between artists. The differences between Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan and Fiona Apple seem so slight though they are all very different individuals.
I have some things to say here about the literary stuff.
The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can.
I think saying that folks are “hiding behind sci-fi/fantasy” is unfair. One must remember that fantastical fiction has *itself* fallen under the cultural rot. Great truths can be conveyed through bold, imaginative storytelling that is fun to read, but Oldpub in particular is not interested in those things, as they may be unsafe.
I have a theory that unifies both the Oldpub tendency toward blandness and the indie tendency toward pastiche: **Strong emotions risk cancellation.** Any writing that arouses strong emotional responses may set off people who cannot regulate their emotions well, resulting in cancel mobs; there’s a reason that the Tumblr crowd tends to be uniquely vicious when dragging someone online (This is the reason for “trigger warnings”, as well as the childish style of modern American cartoons.) Notice that I said nothing about politics, woke or otherwise; this is because even media that espouses basic progressive tenets gets attacked if its imagery is too vivid.
Thus to avoid the cancel mobs, both Oldpub and indie cope in similar ways. Oldpub tries to stick to the approved ideological points influenced by their largely white female liberal workforce, while indie sticks to stuff similar to what they read, watched on TV, or played video games of in their youth, since those things are well-understood and thus safe. By contrast, something new and affecting risks angering the emotionally immature due to fear of the unknown. And so we get blandness and pastiche.
But strong emotions are where the good writing is. **Therefore, if you write anything good or anything that matters, you risk cancellation.** The specific politics are beside the point; you’re going to get whiny reactions no matter your philosophy. If we are to push forward, we need to stop letting immature people hold our creativity hostage.
Interesting talk. I think it’s true that the 60s was a truly radical decade in the sense that it featured the revolt against tradition as a rite of passage instead of upholding tradition as most rites of passage do. Then the 70s brought punk rock and hip hop, the latter being a truly groundbreaking art form. But growing up in the 90s I was aware of how derivative so much of the culture was. Lollapalooza, grunge etc. But maybe cannibalism of the past is more like the natural order of things and it just seems weird to us because we’re living in the aftershocks of the 60s and 70s/80s. Not to give too much credit to boomers here or anything, and it is true that our internet age contains a lot of recycled banality.
It's a shame that "Pulp Rock" hasn't sold well. It's a fantastic concept! I regret that I missed out on the Kickstarter, but this interview convinced me to order a copy. I look forward to reading it!
this is important. However, the thing you are longing for - a "culture" of now - or rather the longing for it itself, is the reason there isn't one.
The idea of culture itself is a smokescreen that blinds us to....
...why the HELL are you reading Dan Simmons when you could be reading, and rereading, Jack Vance? 😐