Cannibalism of the past after such momentous decades is a possibility. It explains much of the recycling. The culture produced in the 90s, of course, was also distinct in many ways, as is that of every decade. But there is an inescapable feeling that after 1997 or so, any changes are very tiny and more tweaks to a template that has remained in plane for almost thirty years—an entire other generation.
The issue is that there is more of a culture of censorship than the public wants to believe. The idea that everyone has to be spoonfed and dictated what is "decent and appropriate" is why we are stuck in a rut of things being created and no one caring/buying them. Those like myself who say what the fuck they want in a book are silently blackballed, as if somehow saying something naughty is going to make the world shart itself to death.
Of course. While it's great having almost everything available near instantly that same fact erases the culture of discovery. It's like we have unlimited dessert.
It’s sad because being influenced to and aware of past works is one of the best ways to forge something new. But that’s very different than “trying to make your own version of” copy/pasting.
Jun 4Liked by Alexander Hellene, Alexandru Constantin
Past decades are being cannibalized in order to be erased. There is a movement right now going on to eradicate all the naughty pocket paperbacks from back in the 60s and 70s (think Holloway House Street of Ho's or something like that) and take the public away from craving such things by social media bullying and other tactics. The US market has all but lost a dedicated readership - no one wants cozy Agatha Christie regurgitations and censored crime novels that feel like light hearted Disney films.
Side bar here: they are talking of rebooting Daria as Daria and Jodie (an idea I think they got from my very successful fan fic novel on AOS). Nobody wants that. What they want are things like Strangers with Candy and Real Sex - cutting edge stuff relevant to the time. Not forced ideology that they might be cool with but don't want fisted down their throats. The only cartoon I've seen people excited to see come back are Tales From The Tour Bus. Nobody even cares about South Park anymore and Family Guy has had it from being forced into niceness.
It’s unbelievable isn’t it? Good way of putting it: the endless remakes, etc., are just to rewrite history. Not only are they out of ideas, they’re historical vandals. Well said.
The endless remakes are them being cheap. The corporate conglomeration that has happened since deregulation allowed Hollywood to have the big 3 as a Cerberus. ABC Disney Hulu, NBC Comcast, CBS Paramount have ownership of old scripts, which means they don't have to pay the writers. Even more to the point, when the writers have lived long enough to get their shit back ala Stephen King, they oversaturate the public with crap remakes and devalue the catalog, hence how It was turned into 2 movies, 7 Pet Semetary redo's sequels, etc. They are not out of ideas, they don't want any new ones that cost money and could make the public think for the inconvenience of cutting a paycheck.
Writers like me are ignored because we can't fit an "industry standard stereotype" of cookie cutter drivel that is "commercial" but not sellable. Hence why I started my own publishing company. Nobody can tell me it can't come out because they are afraid what XYZ group is going to say on social media and scare the bejesus outta them.
And what's crazy about that is that they will use their influence to still block out indies, which is why AI now is on the horizon. My debut novel speaks to that - Amazon shadowbanned it, which spread to the other outlets that got it. I had lawyered up to sue them, walked away from a deal and everything over it (and I was nominated for a Pulitzer at the time). Their thing was controlling what they thought was offensive, categorizing the book based on the race of the author, not paying overseas royalties (which they confirmed with my lawyer they do not pay American authors) after taking 40% off the top of going through a chain of distribution they have bought out, acquired, or created most don't know they own. I still get the last laugh as I pulled the book, forced them to remove it after them telling me WE DONT REMOVE BOOKS WE MARK THEM OUT OF PRINT which is bullshit if you not gonna let people find them, and used copies are going for 1K right now as it became a cult classic from it.
Jan 23Liked by Alexandru Constantin, Alexander Hellene
I really enjoyed this episode. Great theme music too. I have had similar thoughts but y’all articulated them much better than I could.
Funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about 90s music just this morning. It’s funny to see now not only the crazy juxtapositions of pop music genres on the radio but also the rather blatant similarities between artists. The differences between Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan and Fiona Apple seem so slight though they are all very different individuals.
I have some things to say here about the literary stuff.
The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can.
I think saying that folks are “hiding behind sci-fi/fantasy” is unfair. One must remember that fantastical fiction has *itself* fallen under the cultural rot. Great truths can be conveyed through bold, imaginative storytelling that is fun to read, but Oldpub in particular is not interested in those things, as they may be unsafe.
I have a theory that unifies both the Oldpub tendency toward blandness and the indie tendency toward pastiche: **Strong emotions risk cancellation.** Any writing that arouses strong emotional responses may set off people who cannot regulate their emotions well, resulting in cancel mobs; there’s a reason that the Tumblr crowd tends to be uniquely vicious when dragging someone online (This is the reason for “trigger warnings”, as well as the childish style of modern American cartoons.) Notice that I said nothing about politics, woke or otherwise; this is because even media that espouses basic progressive tenets gets attacked if its imagery is too vivid.
Thus to avoid the cancel mobs, both Oldpub and indie cope in similar ways. Oldpub tries to stick to the approved ideological points influenced by their largely white female liberal workforce, while indie sticks to stuff similar to what they read, watched on TV, or played video games of in their youth, since those things are well-understood and thus safe. By contrast, something new and affecting risks angering the emotionally immature due to fear of the unknown. And so we get blandness and pastiche.
But strong emotions are where the good writing is. **Therefore, if you write anything good or anything that matters, you risk cancellation.** The specific politics are beside the point; you’re going to get whiny reactions no matter your philosophy. If we are to push forward, we need to stop letting immature people hold our creativity hostage.
Feb 3Liked by Alexandru Constantin, Alexander Hellene
«The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can. »
I wanted to talk about this myself. It's sure that, in reaction to the desecrating trend in the entertainment industry, people feel the need to reclaim, if not the characters and worlds themselves, their themes and ideas. That said, certain generations have been nurtured by these IPs, and these have been the only presence in their lives and in their education. Who writes Conan pastiche has probably:
1) been nurtured by the move all throughout his growing phase
2) never explored the themes, the references, the inspirations that made Conan possible; he didn't enrich his inner world by developing his understanding of Conan's themes and ideas, he didn't ask for more of what made Conan great. He just kept consuming more of the Conan IPs.
In a sense, many indie writers still need to grow up.
P.S.: I mean no ill will towards them, of course. This is just what I see.
This is correct. I’ve needed to improve myself in this manner. I’ve heard that if one wants to write like Tolkien, reading what Tolkien *read* is more important than reading what Tolkien *wrote.*
That hits home in a special way. My first writing misadventures as a teenager were the usual attempt to write more Tolkien, because I had already read Tolkien and could find no one else like him. Of course, I failed, and had to give up the quest to have at least one more Tolkien in the world to write one more The Lord of the Rings.
No one can be Tolkien 2.0, because each person is a single event, and if every artist puts his soul in his work, well, his opus is a single event, too, and you cannot repeat it. But if you read and like Tolkien, and then start looking at Beowulf, reading Lord Dunsany, research fairy tales, etc., then you will get as near to his style as you can be, without sacrificing your own inner world. You will have inherited from Tolkien instead of copying him.
The book I'm working on seems to be, by what the beta readers say, very Tolkienesque in his own distinct way. It's funny, because I had abandoned the idea to be Tolkien, and started doing what I wanted while reading all sorts of things. But I read more of what made him like he was, and that seems to be making me an inheritor. Hopefully, when people will read the complete work, they will be able to say I'm not wasting this inheritance.
As a side note: there are also people who write when they should be doing something else, because they believe writing is easier since you only need Microsoft Word. These are the first ones to write pastiche, because they're not readers, but gamers, movie-watchers, etc.
(1) You’re right — you can’t be the next Tolkien because there could only be one of him. By reading widely, you’ve improved your abilities. Also, when you read what your favorite authors read, you will do your own take due to your experiences and wants. It won’t be like that author because you’re the first you.
(2) I was like that at first. “I want to make visual entertainment, but I can’t draw, so I write instead.” However, as I spent decades honing my writing ability, I got better at crafting stories in words. When I would attempt some foray into a visual mode of storytelling, I would be totally lost because visual storytelling is 100% different from prose fiction. Thus, I’ve decided to play to my strengths and stick with prose.
Regarding point 2, at this point I acknowledged the eclecticism in my ideas. Some are good for prose, others fit better in different media. I personally accepted to sacrifice my output so that I can try to get the gist of different means of communication. In time, I hope I will get to show consistent results.
No problem in sticking with one kind as well. It all comes down to personal choice.
I’d like to get good at screenwriting, for example. But then I’d have to beg people to get my script produced, and begging like that is not something I want to do.
I believe this was the first episode and I do come off as a neurotic spaz who took too much Adderall. I took a few episodes for me to dial in the right tone, cadence, etc. I'm still working on it.
I sure hope so. I’m not a recording professional or a pro broadcaster. I just decided to start this on a whim, and I needed to spend some tax write off money last year, so I bought a microphone. The presentation, format, editing, and conversation is a free flowing work in progress, and the only thing I can guarantee is that I’m being 100% honest and authentic.
Interesting talk. I think it’s true that the 60s was a truly radical decade in the sense that it featured the revolt against tradition as a rite of passage instead of upholding tradition as most rites of passage do. Then the 70s brought punk rock and hip hop, the latter being a truly groundbreaking art form. But growing up in the 90s I was aware of how derivative so much of the culture was. Lollapalooza, grunge etc. But maybe cannibalism of the past is more like the natural order of things and it just seems weird to us because we’re living in the aftershocks of the 60s and 70s/80s. Not to give too much credit to boomers here or anything, and it is true that our internet age contains a lot of recycled banality.
It's a shame that "Pulp Rock" hasn't sold well. It's a fantastic concept! I regret that I missed out on the Kickstarter, but this interview convinced me to order a copy. I look forward to reading it!
I've read most of Vance and almost all Simmons. I think Lyonesse is one of if not the best fantasy novels, but I really liked the literary callbacks of Hyperion. Of course I think that the best Dan Simmons is from his later and more current era where he left Science Fiction behind. His novel Drood is difficult and rewarding, but not for everyone.
I met Dan Simmons, he's a real nice guy, friendly, and we chatted for a bit where he gave me some writing advice. He said, "don't write science fiction." I agree with him.
Cannibalism of the past after such momentous decades is a possibility. It explains much of the recycling. The culture produced in the 90s, of course, was also distinct in many ways, as is that of every decade. But there is an inescapable feeling that after 1997 or so, any changes are very tiny and more tweaks to a template that has remained in plane for almost thirty years—an entire other generation.
The issue is that there is more of a culture of censorship than the public wants to believe. The idea that everyone has to be spoonfed and dictated what is "decent and appropriate" is why we are stuck in a rut of things being created and no one caring/buying them. Those like myself who say what the fuck they want in a book are silently blackballed, as if somehow saying something naughty is going to make the world shart itself to death.
Technology makes it so easy to access trappings of past scenes and trends that it’s easier to copy-paste old things than create the new.
Of course. While it's great having almost everything available near instantly that same fact erases the culture of discovery. It's like we have unlimited dessert.
There is that aspect as well.
"recreations of recreations"
What a succinct way to explain the state of most modern culture!
It’s sad because being influenced to and aware of past works is one of the best ways to forge something new. But that’s very different than “trying to make your own version of” copy/pasting.
Past decades are being cannibalized in order to be erased. There is a movement right now going on to eradicate all the naughty pocket paperbacks from back in the 60s and 70s (think Holloway House Street of Ho's or something like that) and take the public away from craving such things by social media bullying and other tactics. The US market has all but lost a dedicated readership - no one wants cozy Agatha Christie regurgitations and censored crime novels that feel like light hearted Disney films.
Side bar here: they are talking of rebooting Daria as Daria and Jodie (an idea I think they got from my very successful fan fic novel on AOS). Nobody wants that. What they want are things like Strangers with Candy and Real Sex - cutting edge stuff relevant to the time. Not forced ideology that they might be cool with but don't want fisted down their throats. The only cartoon I've seen people excited to see come back are Tales From The Tour Bus. Nobody even cares about South Park anymore and Family Guy has had it from being forced into niceness.
It’s unbelievable isn’t it? Good way of putting it: the endless remakes, etc., are just to rewrite history. Not only are they out of ideas, they’re historical vandals. Well said.
The endless remakes are them being cheap. The corporate conglomeration that has happened since deregulation allowed Hollywood to have the big 3 as a Cerberus. ABC Disney Hulu, NBC Comcast, CBS Paramount have ownership of old scripts, which means they don't have to pay the writers. Even more to the point, when the writers have lived long enough to get their shit back ala Stephen King, they oversaturate the public with crap remakes and devalue the catalog, hence how It was turned into 2 movies, 7 Pet Semetary redo's sequels, etc. They are not out of ideas, they don't want any new ones that cost money and could make the public think for the inconvenience of cutting a paycheck.
Writers like me are ignored because we can't fit an "industry standard stereotype" of cookie cutter drivel that is "commercial" but not sellable. Hence why I started my own publishing company. Nobody can tell me it can't come out because they are afraid what XYZ group is going to say on social media and scare the bejesus outta them.
Starting your own company, publisher, etc. is the way to do it because the system only accepts its own, and they want a guaranteed ROI.
And what's crazy about that is that they will use their influence to still block out indies, which is why AI now is on the horizon. My debut novel speaks to that - Amazon shadowbanned it, which spread to the other outlets that got it. I had lawyered up to sue them, walked away from a deal and everything over it (and I was nominated for a Pulitzer at the time). Their thing was controlling what they thought was offensive, categorizing the book based on the race of the author, not paying overseas royalties (which they confirmed with my lawyer they do not pay American authors) after taking 40% off the top of going through a chain of distribution they have bought out, acquired, or created most don't know they own. I still get the last laugh as I pulled the book, forced them to remove it after them telling me WE DONT REMOVE BOOKS WE MARK THEM OUT OF PRINT which is bullshit if you not gonna let people find them, and used copies are going for 1K right now as it became a cult classic from it.
I really enjoyed this episode. Great theme music too. I have had similar thoughts but y’all articulated them much better than I could.
Funnily enough, my wife and I were talking about 90s music just this morning. It’s funny to see now not only the crazy juxtapositions of pop music genres on the radio but also the rather blatant similarities between artists. The differences between Tori Amos, Sarah McLachlan and Fiona Apple seem so slight though they are all very different individuals.
I like all three, but Fiona Apple leads the pack. Can't forget Jewel.
I have some things to say here about the literary stuff.
The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can.
I think saying that folks are “hiding behind sci-fi/fantasy” is unfair. One must remember that fantastical fiction has *itself* fallen under the cultural rot. Great truths can be conveyed through bold, imaginative storytelling that is fun to read, but Oldpub in particular is not interested in those things, as they may be unsafe.
I have a theory that unifies both the Oldpub tendency toward blandness and the indie tendency toward pastiche: **Strong emotions risk cancellation.** Any writing that arouses strong emotional responses may set off people who cannot regulate their emotions well, resulting in cancel mobs; there’s a reason that the Tumblr crowd tends to be uniquely vicious when dragging someone online (This is the reason for “trigger warnings”, as well as the childish style of modern American cartoons.) Notice that I said nothing about politics, woke or otherwise; this is because even media that espouses basic progressive tenets gets attacked if its imagery is too vivid.
Thus to avoid the cancel mobs, both Oldpub and indie cope in similar ways. Oldpub tries to stick to the approved ideological points influenced by their largely white female liberal workforce, while indie sticks to stuff similar to what they read, watched on TV, or played video games of in their youth, since those things are well-understood and thus safe. By contrast, something new and affecting risks angering the emotionally immature due to fear of the unknown. And so we get blandness and pastiche.
But strong emotions are where the good writing is. **Therefore, if you write anything good or anything that matters, you risk cancellation.** The specific politics are beside the point; you’re going to get whiny reactions no matter your philosophy. If we are to push forward, we need to stop letting immature people hold our creativity hostage.
«The “Conan pastiche” thing indicates deep-seated issues in the scene. It’s connected to the larger issue of 90s kids or earlier wanting to recapture the cultural products of their youth. The IPs that gave them comfort were ruined, so they want to reclaim those things any way they can. »
I wanted to talk about this myself. It's sure that, in reaction to the desecrating trend in the entertainment industry, people feel the need to reclaim, if not the characters and worlds themselves, their themes and ideas. That said, certain generations have been nurtured by these IPs, and these have been the only presence in their lives and in their education. Who writes Conan pastiche has probably:
1) been nurtured by the move all throughout his growing phase
2) never explored the themes, the references, the inspirations that made Conan possible; he didn't enrich his inner world by developing his understanding of Conan's themes and ideas, he didn't ask for more of what made Conan great. He just kept consuming more of the Conan IPs.
In a sense, many indie writers still need to grow up.
P.S.: I mean no ill will towards them, of course. This is just what I see.
This is correct. I’ve needed to improve myself in this manner. I’ve heard that if one wants to write like Tolkien, reading what Tolkien *read* is more important than reading what Tolkien *wrote.*
That hits home in a special way. My first writing misadventures as a teenager were the usual attempt to write more Tolkien, because I had already read Tolkien and could find no one else like him. Of course, I failed, and had to give up the quest to have at least one more Tolkien in the world to write one more The Lord of the Rings.
No one can be Tolkien 2.0, because each person is a single event, and if every artist puts his soul in his work, well, his opus is a single event, too, and you cannot repeat it. But if you read and like Tolkien, and then start looking at Beowulf, reading Lord Dunsany, research fairy tales, etc., then you will get as near to his style as you can be, without sacrificing your own inner world. You will have inherited from Tolkien instead of copying him.
The book I'm working on seems to be, by what the beta readers say, very Tolkienesque in his own distinct way. It's funny, because I had abandoned the idea to be Tolkien, and started doing what I wanted while reading all sorts of things. But I read more of what made him like he was, and that seems to be making me an inheritor. Hopefully, when people will read the complete work, they will be able to say I'm not wasting this inheritance.
As a side note: there are also people who write when they should be doing something else, because they believe writing is easier since you only need Microsoft Word. These are the first ones to write pastiche, because they're not readers, but gamers, movie-watchers, etc.
(1) You’re right — you can’t be the next Tolkien because there could only be one of him. By reading widely, you’ve improved your abilities. Also, when you read what your favorite authors read, you will do your own take due to your experiences and wants. It won’t be like that author because you’re the first you.
(2) I was like that at first. “I want to make visual entertainment, but I can’t draw, so I write instead.” However, as I spent decades honing my writing ability, I got better at crafting stories in words. When I would attempt some foray into a visual mode of storytelling, I would be totally lost because visual storytelling is 100% different from prose fiction. Thus, I’ve decided to play to my strengths and stick with prose.
Regarding point 2, at this point I acknowledged the eclecticism in my ideas. Some are good for prose, others fit better in different media. I personally accepted to sacrifice my output so that I can try to get the gist of different means of communication. In time, I hope I will get to show consistent results.
No problem in sticking with one kind as well. It all comes down to personal choice.
I’d like to get good at screenwriting, for example. But then I’d have to beg people to get my script produced, and begging like that is not something I want to do.
Initial impression of Alexandru's style in this first podcast. I want to stress that I could be wrong.
Man is he fast. I wonder if sub 120 g can keep up. Maybe slow down a little.
He's reading, and some of it is playful or silly. It might be good if the intensity of the reading could transform to match the words on the page.
Ok that's it. Back to the show.
I believe this was the first episode and I do come off as a neurotic spaz who took too much Adderall. I took a few episodes for me to dial in the right tone, cadence, etc. I'm still working on it.
I'll keep listening!
I sure hope so. I’m not a recording professional or a pro broadcaster. I just decided to start this on a whim, and I needed to spend some tax write off money last year, so I bought a microphone. The presentation, format, editing, and conversation is a free flowing work in progress, and the only thing I can guarantee is that I’m being 100% honest and authentic.
Once you got into the conversation with Alexander I think you caught your stride. Maybe some of the adderall fumes had burned off too :-)
I hope you catch a huge wave with this gig, Alexandru. Authenticity in this modern age is a rare commodity.
Interesting talk. I think it’s true that the 60s was a truly radical decade in the sense that it featured the revolt against tradition as a rite of passage instead of upholding tradition as most rites of passage do. Then the 70s brought punk rock and hip hop, the latter being a truly groundbreaking art form. But growing up in the 90s I was aware of how derivative so much of the culture was. Lollapalooza, grunge etc. But maybe cannibalism of the past is more like the natural order of things and it just seems weird to us because we’re living in the aftershocks of the 60s and 70s/80s. Not to give too much credit to boomers here or anything, and it is true that our internet age contains a lot of recycled banality.
Yes, I always have this feeling that the 20th century might be a deviation from the norm and now we are just returning to a creative baseline.
It's a shame that "Pulp Rock" hasn't sold well. It's a fantastic concept! I regret that I missed out on the Kickstarter, but this interview convinced me to order a copy. I look forward to reading it!
Hey thank you! I hope you enjoy it!
Supposed to get here Wednesday!
this is important. However, the thing you are longing for - a "culture" of now - or rather the longing for it itself, is the reason there isn't one.
The idea of culture itself is a smokescreen that blinds us to....
Simmons is a low hp vance pastiche motor running at twise its allowable rpms
...why the HELL are you reading Dan Simmons when you could be reading, and rereading, Jack Vance? 😐
I've read most of Vance and almost all Simmons. I think Lyonesse is one of if not the best fantasy novels, but I really liked the literary callbacks of Hyperion. Of course I think that the best Dan Simmons is from his later and more current era where he left Science Fiction behind. His novel Drood is difficult and rewarding, but not for everyone.
I met Dan Simmons, he's a real nice guy, friendly, and we chatted for a bit where he gave me some writing advice. He said, "don't write science fiction." I agree with him.
I can't get past the first page of Hyperion, it's such an overheated mishmash of Vance tropes!
To his credit Simmons recognizes his dept to Vance.
In fact 80% of sci-fi is Vance pastiche... bad pastiche unfortunately.