The problem with indie publishing maturing into having its own quality gatekeepers is it will eventually morph into the new traditional publishing where a tiny group insiders will control content. As a result, we’d be back to square one (in my dystopian opinion).
That's a potential issue, but I don't see gatekeeping in the self-pub space happening any time soon. Amazon's ecosystem makes it virtually impossible. There might be small corners of the indie sphere who want to "control" what gets popular (and we've seen that with some authors/fans behaving badly on social media) but on the whole, there's so many niche little microgenres etc that there's no way a small group can control ALL of indie publishing. The internet is a wild place. But! That's also why having dependable, serious critique IS possible and needed. There's so much, which is wonderful to see, but for readers it can be really overwhelming.
With luck! Publishing someone else's work is a huge committment, one which writers have little inkling. Misunderstandings abound. The most meaningful gate you pass through leads through your garden to the street. How difficult do you make it for yourself, really? I feel, especially in genre circles, that writers have an image of an editor as some harried soul from a film from the 1930s, someone who puts out thirty books a year to keep the printer's discount intact. Even through the 1950s there was a hunger just for words to slap down on pulp, rag, or anything between. We're still in this crazy afterglow, even though the physical evidence of that period is disappearing. You can't just put any manuscript in your bag before you go through your gate. There are all these "how to write" books that are still out there--they subsist on an image of this afterglow. What matters is where we will be in five years' time. I certainly hope that some independant publishers can make the claim to being neo-traditional--but I have to admit I neither really understand or accept the terminology: a publisher is someone who publishes someone else's work, whether or not they have institutional backing.
Start with 1 and read through all 10. In sequence forsaking all other literature.
Its unlike anything... due to his kiwi mindset. No other Good fantasy has come out of NZ since.
Chronicles of an Age of Darkness is a ten-volume series of cross-genre fantasy and science fiction novels created by New Zealand cult author Hugh Cook. The series broadly tells of the events leading to the end of a fantasy world's dark age.
The Chronicles are not high fantasy, but could be described as Sword and sorcery or Planetary romance. The novels include elements of science fiction, comedy, graphic violence, grotesque and macabre happenings, and political cynicism. They are sometimes described as "gritty" because of their realism
Lisa Kuznak, "[With respect to] Penguin Random, big publishers almost admitting that they don't know what they're doing."
In the US, when big publishing began, publishers had the reserve and humor to say, "Meh, you're right." They had the personality to suggest at this truth in an entertaining way that made the industry seem magical. This bonhomie persisted into the 1970s, maybe into the 1980s. I can only think of a few exceptions who persist today. This spirit dissipates in corporate environment. It shouldn't be news to anyone, but it is agents who do developmental editing now. Writers, you have to be someone with whom it is fun to lunch.
On the “nobody reads” thing. I will note that most of the examples that Alexandru gave, and from personal experience with my wife and the clubs she’s involved in, almost all of these are with women.
It is a very long discussion on why little that is new seems to be published that appeals to men.
Yeah, you bring up a very valid point. Traditional publishing is definitely aimed at women—a large portion of agents and editors are women, too.
Men typically buy used books and they're also reading a lot of self-pub, but it's virtually impossible to measure those numbers, so we can only go by what we see!
True. Outstanding interview, and conversation. I look forward to reading Pallas. I especially loved the point about not writing things down as a filter. I sometimes do take note, but I don't constantly review said list either. Fully understand "If I forgot about it it likely wasn't that important"
Analog in space is not that farfetched, though the details of that forgery were a bit behind the times. Karl Gallagher's torchship series posited analog ships to prevent getting hacked by AI, a more extreme version of the Galactica reboot's premise of hardened and isolated systems. Even without those examples, there's a lot to be said for field expedient repairability with unknown tech and industrial bases to draw on. Aside - trying to get that ship rebuild in Planet of Adventure was fun. Loved that whole set of books.
Oh - and a strong, strong second to Sky Hernstrom, and pretty much anything from Pilum. I'm biased, but it's good stuff.
Good talk, especially about finding readers. “Writers writing to other writers” was the main reason I never submitted work to short fiction magazines.
Plus, I do think the “nobody reads” thing is overstated; I believe that it’s because most of the writers are in the extremely online space of social media, where more visual works dominate, and thus no one gets excited for their novels. Therefore, from their point of view, “nobody reads.”
I think a lot of people see those statistics that like "600% of Americans haven't read a book in the past year" or whatever and get sad. But we all know that the people who do read, read a ton. Plus a lot of those statistics are looking at just trad pub new book sales, they aren't looking at used or indie. In fact I'm not even sure if there's a way to measure self-publishing sales numbers the way you can with trad sales. So, in my opinion I think it's important to set realistic expectations but don't let the numbers bring you down. Just write and have fun!
Folk horror in space. I had to look up folk horror ahah.
I diddnt know I LOVE Folk horror! Midnomar and the Wikker man! For the Win !
Folk horror is a subgenre of horror film and horror fiction that uses elements of folklore to invoke fear and foreboding. Typical elements include a rural setting, isolation, and themes of superstition, folk religion, paganism, sacrifice and the dark aspects of nature
Folk horror is one of my favourite subgenres, and body horror... so I mashed em together and stuck em on an asteroid hahaha!
And to go along with my contrarianist belief that genre doesn't matter because all horror is fantasy and all scifi is fantasy... so really, Pallas counts as fantasy too ;)
The problem with indie publishing maturing into having its own quality gatekeepers is it will eventually morph into the new traditional publishing where a tiny group insiders will control content. As a result, we’d be back to square one (in my dystopian opinion).
That's a potential issue, but I don't see gatekeeping in the self-pub space happening any time soon. Amazon's ecosystem makes it virtually impossible. There might be small corners of the indie sphere who want to "control" what gets popular (and we've seen that with some authors/fans behaving badly on social media) but on the whole, there's so many niche little microgenres etc that there's no way a small group can control ALL of indie publishing. The internet is a wild place. But! That's also why having dependable, serious critique IS possible and needed. There's so much, which is wonderful to see, but for readers it can be really overwhelming.
With luck! Publishing someone else's work is a huge committment, one which writers have little inkling. Misunderstandings abound. The most meaningful gate you pass through leads through your garden to the street. How difficult do you make it for yourself, really? I feel, especially in genre circles, that writers have an image of an editor as some harried soul from a film from the 1930s, someone who puts out thirty books a year to keep the printer's discount intact. Even through the 1950s there was a hunger just for words to slap down on pulp, rag, or anything between. We're still in this crazy afterglow, even though the physical evidence of that period is disappearing. You can't just put any manuscript in your bag before you go through your gate. There are all these "how to write" books that are still out there--they subsist on an image of this afterglow. What matters is where we will be in five years' time. I certainly hope that some independant publishers can make the claim to being neo-traditional--but I have to admit I neither really understand or accept the terminology: a publisher is someone who publishes someone else's work, whether or not they have institutional backing.
I'm in the gutter of this literary ghetto looking up at the stars with you guys...
I have one more story to write then I can publish :) So much good advice here.
Just ordered all the Lyonesse.
You guy HAVE to read Hugh Cook. NZ author - Real Vancian :)
What book do you recommend?
Start with 1 and read through all 10. In sequence forsaking all other literature.
Its unlike anything... due to his kiwi mindset. No other Good fantasy has come out of NZ since.
Chronicles of an Age of Darkness is a ten-volume series of cross-genre fantasy and science fiction novels created by New Zealand cult author Hugh Cook. The series broadly tells of the events leading to the end of a fantasy world's dark age.
The Chronicles are not high fantasy, but could be described as Sword and sorcery or Planetary romance. The novels include elements of science fiction, comedy, graphic violence, grotesque and macabre happenings, and political cynicism. They are sometimes described as "gritty" because of their realism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicles_of_an_Age_of_Darkness
Nice! I'll check it out
https://www.reddit.com/r/hughcook/
Lisa Kuznak, "[With respect to] Penguin Random, big publishers almost admitting that they don't know what they're doing."
In the US, when big publishing began, publishers had the reserve and humor to say, "Meh, you're right." They had the personality to suggest at this truth in an entertaining way that made the industry seem magical. This bonhomie persisted into the 1970s, maybe into the 1980s. I can only think of a few exceptions who persist today. This spirit dissipates in corporate environment. It shouldn't be news to anyone, but it is agents who do developmental editing now. Writers, you have to be someone with whom it is fun to lunch.
On the “nobody reads” thing. I will note that most of the examples that Alexandru gave, and from personal experience with my wife and the clubs she’s involved in, almost all of these are with women.
It is a very long discussion on why little that is new seems to be published that appeals to men.
Yeah, you bring up a very valid point. Traditional publishing is definitely aimed at women—a large portion of agents and editors are women, too.
Men typically buy used books and they're also reading a lot of self-pub, but it's virtually impossible to measure those numbers, so we can only go by what we see!
True. Outstanding interview, and conversation. I look forward to reading Pallas. I especially loved the point about not writing things down as a filter. I sometimes do take note, but I don't constantly review said list either. Fully understand "If I forgot about it it likely wasn't that important"
Analog in space is not that farfetched, though the details of that forgery were a bit behind the times. Karl Gallagher's torchship series posited analog ships to prevent getting hacked by AI, a more extreme version of the Galactica reboot's premise of hardened and isolated systems. Even without those examples, there's a lot to be said for field expedient repairability with unknown tech and industrial bases to draw on. Aside - trying to get that ship rebuild in Planet of Adventure was fun. Loved that whole set of books.
Oh - and a strong, strong second to Sky Hernstrom, and pretty much anything from Pilum. I'm biased, but it's good stuff.
Excellent points!
Good talk! Those of us who have ingested indie syfy and horror on Kindle are grateful for this talk and if they aren't I am.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Great interview. I'll be reading Pallas soon, it seems right up my alley 🎳
Thanks so much!
Good talk, especially about finding readers. “Writers writing to other writers” was the main reason I never submitted work to short fiction magazines.
Plus, I do think the “nobody reads” thing is overstated; I believe that it’s because most of the writers are in the extremely online space of social media, where more visual works dominate, and thus no one gets excited for their novels. Therefore, from their point of view, “nobody reads.”
I think a lot of people see those statistics that like "600% of Americans haven't read a book in the past year" or whatever and get sad. But we all know that the people who do read, read a ton. Plus a lot of those statistics are looking at just trad pub new book sales, they aren't looking at used or indie. In fact I'm not even sure if there's a way to measure self-publishing sales numbers the way you can with trad sales. So, in my opinion I think it's important to set realistic expectations but don't let the numbers bring you down. Just write and have fun!
Folk horror in space. I had to look up folk horror ahah.
I diddnt know I LOVE Folk horror! Midnomar and the Wikker man! For the Win !
Folk horror is a subgenre of horror film and horror fiction that uses elements of folklore to invoke fear and foreboding. Typical elements include a rural setting, isolation, and themes of superstition, folk religion, paganism, sacrifice and the dark aspects of nature
Folk horror is one of my favourite subgenres, and body horror... so I mashed em together and stuck em on an asteroid hahaha!
And to go along with my contrarianist belief that genre doesn't matter because all horror is fantasy and all scifi is fantasy... so really, Pallas counts as fantasy too ;)
Yup, that’s how I’m handling it now.
Will check it out! I thought I read somewhere that Lisa is from a town I used to live and have much family in, Thunder Bay.
It's true!
Do you eat Persians?
Whenever I get the chance! And Finnish pancakes, too ;)
Bummer about the Hoito
Yeah, it's a bummer. But they weren’t the only place to take good pancakes. A lot of people lost a 2nd home when the Hoito burned down, though.