Great response. Walt probably means well, like a lot of Marxists and "progressives" throughout history, but he is basing his agenda on some naïve assumptions about human nature, and he is much more confident than he should be in his ability to do social engineering and manage all the unintended second and third order effects, which is also just like so many Marxists and "progressives" reformers throughout history. If there's one lesson we should take away from recent history, it's that social engineering schemes (especially those that try to replace organic institutions and religious norms with artificial ones) often backfire in catastrophic ways.
You take Walt about as seriously as he deserves while exposing the poorly-concealed libidinous narcissist screaming for attention in the moral void of every last bit of 'content' he produces.
This 'EHC' stuff is just so much self-serving, amoral perversion of elite theory. Some call it Nietzschean; doing so is a huge disservice to Nietzsche, whatever you might think of him.
Young men need to realize that their opinions are simply that - opinions. Just because you have a lot of followers online, doesn't mean you can get a bunch of people to implement things offline and change the world.
A manifesto, by it's very nature, is meant to do just that. Change the world.
To which I respond - You and what army, brother?
Unless you have a group of people behind you, willing to die, but more importantly, raise families and live the life you're talking about - your words are empty. They might get a lot of likes, hits, subs, and even make you money here.
But that doesn't make the world change.
It just boosts your ego.
It takes some time and humility to know the difference between the two.
Personally I think a lot of this stuff is to do with the interaction between testosterone, adrenaline, cortisol, blood sugar spikes, insulin, and the pancreas. Whenever I read some ranting loon rant on a wold changing mission to convert.. omg. I'm just like, basically, Moon, Mars, join the queue to depart for the 🌐 Planet of the Truth-Whingers ▶️ 🚀🎠🎢🛸🪐
You are missing the broadest point that Walt is trying to make: *his* opinions and proposals actually have the potential to attract a coalition which *could* seize a meaningful amount of political power, in the near-to-mid future.
Those in the Dave Greene camp do not. Not even remotely. Their ideas could only ever be implemented in desperation, after some kind of collapse and post-civilizational power struggle (if then).
I am completely unfamiliar with Dave Greene. As in, I am halfway through reading his response to Walt's positions after reading your comment, because I thought I would try to be informed before doing so, and then realized I just didn't need to be, because I'm responding to Walt in the original comment and not coming out in support of Greene. I was responding to manifesto's then, after all.
No one will die for hedonistic lifestyles, in mass, by definition. Because they're pursuing a pleasurable life and don't believe in an after life.
Therefore, it's dumb as rocks to say you're going to go toe to toe, and to war, writing a manifesto in support of a hedonistic lifestyle.
Economic, yes - that's what the communists did. The ability to live is different.
But to say that you have the same kind of dedication and drive, and will attract the same kind of people to fight as religion to make sacrifices - is just down right laughable. You don't know what you're talking about.
You have to truly and deeply *believe* in that religion before you will fight and die for it.
That is an *enormous* necessary condition, and one at which Christians in the West are utterly failing at fulfilling.
Walt's vision does not require this kind of committment. It only requires people to want a better life, or the kind of life they witnessed their parents living.
>The whole manifesto should really be distilled down to one paragraph that is something along the above lines, something that is basically “the traditional world of the past was good and I want to live in it but I want to fuck random chicks at parties and not worry about them getting knocked up, so I’m going to because I’m elite, but the rest of you need to follow those old trad rules.”<
Walt doesn't seem to grasp that this is unworkable because the proles will inevitably ape the behavior of elites in order to try and raise their own status. This has already played out and it's part of how we got here, our cultural elites became openly degenerate, lots of the population followed their lead, and things promptly went to shit.
1. I like your manifesto, if by that you mean “We live in a de-sacralized world devoid of meaning. We need to encourage and expand on the good, the true, and the beautiful. Everything else is just material nonsense.” That is quite enough to act as a meaningful guide to action in life, since each item (goodness, truth, beauty) approached honestly will serve to re-sacralize our world of itself, one individual person at a time (which is the only way this can happen.)
2. Re-read for yourself your first sentence in your essay. It is sh*t dude, sorry. I only kept reading because I like the way you think from reading your other stuff. But when I see basic pointers missing in a sentence and have to stop and try to fix your sh*tty half-*ssed typytypytypy in order to understand - from arguably the single most important sentence in your essay - what the f*ck you are asking me to invest my time in, I’m like, f*ck this. But I kept reading because the Bismarck blob is in the air and I was hoping for a shortcut through (ugh) another f*cking manifesto.
3. So, dude, if you want more than a nonpaying sub from me, start following your own manifesto and make your writing reflect the good, true, and beautiful in its very essence and respect your reader with competent prose.
4. Keep up the good work and block me if you don’t like my criticism.
I figured you would have that response - very good. So, I will add one other point: the manifesto you propose was buried under the lede of your Walt Bismarck remarks. But I think it got to the heart of your response. Interestingly, though, no one else mentioned it in the comments. Food for thought.
Yes, fundamentally it's stupid, but at the same time platforms like this influence younger people and stuff like this needs to be addressed and alternatives provided.
I loved your summary of his manifesto which is basically, marriage for thee but not for me. Sorry bro not gonna cut it because then everyone thinks that way (which is what we currently have in our culture). Your manifesto on the other hand is simple and perfect. Obviously prudence plays a role but simply put we must enforce your take and nothing else matters
I’ll give a like b/c you did refute the points and made your points well - doesn’t mean I agree but I don’t have to. When Walt posts these Manifestos they’re not the constitution they’re a starting point to opening up a dialogue where we can then sift through the granular and pick it apart point by point.
There are obvious negative physical (ignoring the psychological for a moment) externalities to sexual excess (and at a higher rate for gay ppl simply due to the male sex drive multiplied upon itself). Eating too much fattening food also comes with negative externalities for both oneself and society by proxy. I wouldn’t say liking to eat chocolate cake is some pathology of the soul in and of itself but sure, Gluttony is. All of the seven deadly sins are in fact normal behaviors just taken to excess.
I read an article once that mentions how Albert Camus's "The Myth of Sisyphus" was basically just a tract justifying him sleeping with hot chicks. I get the same vibe here.
Great response. Walt probably means well, like a lot of Marxists and "progressives" throughout history, but he is basing his agenda on some naïve assumptions about human nature, and he is much more confident than he should be in his ability to do social engineering and manage all the unintended second and third order effects, which is also just like so many Marxists and "progressives" reformers throughout history. If there's one lesson we should take away from recent history, it's that social engineering schemes (especially those that try to replace organic institutions and religious norms with artificial ones) often backfire in catastrophic ways.
Excellent
You take Walt about as seriously as he deserves while exposing the poorly-concealed libidinous narcissist screaming for attention in the moral void of every last bit of 'content' he produces.
This 'EHC' stuff is just so much self-serving, amoral perversion of elite theory. Some call it Nietzschean; doing so is a huge disservice to Nietzsche, whatever you might think of him.
Good post.
Young men need to realize that their opinions are simply that - opinions. Just because you have a lot of followers online, doesn't mean you can get a bunch of people to implement things offline and change the world.
A manifesto, by it's very nature, is meant to do just that. Change the world.
To which I respond - You and what army, brother?
Unless you have a group of people behind you, willing to die, but more importantly, raise families and live the life you're talking about - your words are empty. They might get a lot of likes, hits, subs, and even make you money here.
But that doesn't make the world change.
It just boosts your ego.
It takes some time and humility to know the difference between the two.
Personally I think a lot of this stuff is to do with the interaction between testosterone, adrenaline, cortisol, blood sugar spikes, insulin, and the pancreas. Whenever I read some ranting loon rant on a wold changing mission to convert.. omg. I'm just like, basically, Moon, Mars, join the queue to depart for the 🌐 Planet of the Truth-Whingers ▶️ 🚀🎠🎢🛸🪐
You are missing the broadest point that Walt is trying to make: *his* opinions and proposals actually have the potential to attract a coalition which *could* seize a meaningful amount of political power, in the near-to-mid future.
Those in the Dave Greene camp do not. Not even remotely. Their ideas could only ever be implemented in desperation, after some kind of collapse and post-civilizational power struggle (if then).
I am completely unfamiliar with Dave Greene. As in, I am halfway through reading his response to Walt's positions after reading your comment, because I thought I would try to be informed before doing so, and then realized I just didn't need to be, because I'm responding to Walt in the original comment and not coming out in support of Greene. I was responding to manifesto's then, after all.
No one will die for hedonistic lifestyles, in mass, by definition. Because they're pursuing a pleasurable life and don't believe in an after life.
Therefore, it's dumb as rocks to say you're going to go toe to toe, and to war, writing a manifesto in support of a hedonistic lifestyle.
Economic, yes - that's what the communists did. The ability to live is different.
But to say that you have the same kind of dedication and drive, and will attract the same kind of people to fight as religion to make sacrifices - is just down right laughable. You don't know what you're talking about.
You have to truly and deeply *believe* in that religion before you will fight and die for it.
That is an *enormous* necessary condition, and one at which Christians in the West are utterly failing at fulfilling.
Walt's vision does not require this kind of committment. It only requires people to want a better life, or the kind of life they witnessed their parents living.
>The whole manifesto should really be distilled down to one paragraph that is something along the above lines, something that is basically “the traditional world of the past was good and I want to live in it but I want to fuck random chicks at parties and not worry about them getting knocked up, so I’m going to because I’m elite, but the rest of you need to follow those old trad rules.”<
Walt doesn't seem to grasp that this is unworkable because the proles will inevitably ape the behavior of elites in order to try and raise their own status. This has already played out and it's part of how we got here, our cultural elites became openly degenerate, lots of the population followed their lead, and things promptly went to shit.
1. I like your manifesto, if by that you mean “We live in a de-sacralized world devoid of meaning. We need to encourage and expand on the good, the true, and the beautiful. Everything else is just material nonsense.” That is quite enough to act as a meaningful guide to action in life, since each item (goodness, truth, beauty) approached honestly will serve to re-sacralize our world of itself, one individual person at a time (which is the only way this can happen.)
2. Re-read for yourself your first sentence in your essay. It is sh*t dude, sorry. I only kept reading because I like the way you think from reading your other stuff. But when I see basic pointers missing in a sentence and have to stop and try to fix your sh*tty half-*ssed typytypytypy in order to understand - from arguably the single most important sentence in your essay - what the f*ck you are asking me to invest my time in, I’m like, f*ck this. But I kept reading because the Bismarck blob is in the air and I was hoping for a shortcut through (ugh) another f*cking manifesto.
3. So, dude, if you want more than a nonpaying sub from me, start following your own manifesto and make your writing reflect the good, true, and beautiful in its very essence and respect your reader with competent prose.
4. Keep up the good work and block me if you don’t like my criticism.
I just looked at it, I have no argument, it's a horrible bit of writing.
I figured you would have that response - very good. So, I will add one other point: the manifesto you propose was buried under the lede of your Walt Bismarck remarks. But I think it got to the heart of your response. Interestingly, though, no one else mentioned it in the comments. Food for thought.
Why are we having this conversation? Who cares?
Yes, fundamentally it's stupid, but at the same time platforms like this influence younger people and stuff like this needs to be addressed and alternatives provided.
I loved your summary of his manifesto which is basically, marriage for thee but not for me. Sorry bro not gonna cut it because then everyone thinks that way (which is what we currently have in our culture). Your manifesto on the other hand is simple and perfect. Obviously prudence plays a role but simply put we must enforce your take and nothing else matters
I’ll give a like b/c you did refute the points and made your points well - doesn’t mean I agree but I don’t have to. When Walt posts these Manifestos they’re not the constitution they’re a starting point to opening up a dialogue where we can then sift through the granular and pick it apart point by point.
There are obvious negative physical (ignoring the psychological for a moment) externalities to sexual excess (and at a higher rate for gay ppl simply due to the male sex drive multiplied upon itself). Eating too much fattening food also comes with negative externalities for both oneself and society by proxy. I wouldn’t say liking to eat chocolate cake is some pathology of the soul in and of itself but sure, Gluttony is. All of the seven deadly sins are in fact normal behaviors just taken to excess.
Think about that
I guess this is that "vision for the future" that I keep hearing about.
I read an article once that mentions how Albert Camus's "The Myth of Sisyphus" was basically just a tract justifying him sleeping with hot chicks. I get the same vibe here.